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	<title>Comments on: Irony</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/</link>
	<description>On Usability, Agility and Technology</description>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/comment-page-1/#comment-491</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allaboutbalance.com/?p=161#comment-491</guid>
		<description>I would love stackoverflow if it didn&#039;t require OpenID. OpenID is just stupid. It&#039;s stupid for a site to require users to run through hoops just to register. We&#039;re not interested in openID so dont&#039; make us use it.

If we want to have the same login and password on every site, don&#039;t you think we could just do that ourselves? Duh? It&#039;s called using the same email address and password everywhere.  And this is a problem that OpenID solves? 

What a joke. If you wan to know how to make a good registration/login system look at Reddit. Those guys know how to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love stackoverflow if it didn&#8217;t require OpenID. OpenID is just stupid. It&#8217;s stupid for a site to require users to run through hoops just to register. We&#8217;re not interested in openID so dont&#8217; make us use it.</p>
<p>If we want to have the same login and password on every site, don&#8217;t you think we could just do that ourselves? Duh? It&#8217;s called using the same email address and password everywhere.  And this is a problem that OpenID solves? </p>
<p>What a joke. If you wan to know how to make a good registration/login system look at Reddit. Those guys know how to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Atwood</title>
		<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/comment-page-1/#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Atwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allaboutbalance.com/?p=161#comment-357</guid>
		<description>&gt; Though I was surprised to find so many votes and comments for the OpenID request @ uservoice.

I view this as the &quot;who moved my cheese&quot; brigade. These are people who have a sort of Stockholm Syndrome; they actually *like* having unique usernames and passwords on every single website they visit.

In short, these people are sick, and need help. OpenID help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Though I was surprised to find so many votes and comments for the OpenID request @ uservoice.</p>
<p>I view this as the &#8220;who moved my cheese&#8221; brigade. These are people who have a sort of Stockholm Syndrome; they actually *like* having unique usernames and passwords on every single website they visit.</p>
<p>In short, these people are sick, and need help. OpenID help.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Atwood</title>
		<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/comment-page-1/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Atwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allaboutbalance.com/?p=161#comment-356</guid>
		<description>No worries, really an excellent and well written article overall, Rob!

I do greatly fear an influx of one-click Facebook users, though. Note: I&#039;m not kidding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries, really an excellent and well written article overall, Rob!</p>
<p>I do greatly fear an influx of one-click Facebook users, though. Note: I&#8217;m not kidding.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/comment-page-1/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allaboutbalance.com/?p=161#comment-354</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeff,

I dig your motivation for including OpenID.  If not now, when, right?

So there&#039;s really two questions here:

-- OpenID?
That&#039;s cool, the underlying login technology is really independent to the means by which one interacts with it.  Elves could verifying my ID while stealing the $9 in my wallet for all I care.

-- OpenID @ Stackoverflow?
If your contention is that you&#039;ve purposefully implemented a less-than-stellar OpenID login scheme to speed bump new accounts, we&#039;ll have to agree to disagree on the usefulness here :-)

If you plan on securing investment, removing roadblocks to getting that DAU count up there will be the first order of business.  Speaking of that, where&#039;s the Facebook app to show off my SO badges? ;-)

I would suggest to consider this more in the context for someone coming to stackoverflow:

---
It&#039;s the end of the day.  I&#039;ve been struggling with Rails and has_many :though.  Sure I could stop using Rails, though I&#039;m a sadist.   I&#039;m frustrated and want to ask a question.  And when I&#039;m done, I&#039;ll feel better and perhaps contribute back to the community.  According to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Design-Love-Everyday-Things/dp/0465051367/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1230521773&amp;sr=8-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Emotional Design&lt;/a&gt;, this is the least appropriate moment to challenge me mentally with an unfamiliar concept - my focus is narrowed and I&#039;m done with problem solving.
---

I tend to agree that hey, it&#039;s a site for software developers - they&#039;ll figure it out.  And they have, obviously.  Though I was surprised to find so many votes and comments for the OpenID request @ uservoice.

Thanks for stopping by and best of luck with SO!

Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff,</p>
<p>I dig your motivation for including OpenID.  If not now, when, right?</p>
<p>So there&#8217;s really two questions here:</p>
<p>&#8211; OpenID?<br />
That&#8217;s cool, the underlying login technology is really independent to the means by which one interacts with it.  Elves could verifying my ID while stealing the $9 in my wallet for all I care.</p>
<p>&#8211; OpenID @ Stackoverflow?<br />
If your contention is that you&#8217;ve purposefully implemented a less-than-stellar OpenID login scheme to speed bump new accounts, we&#8217;ll have to agree to disagree on the usefulness here :-)</p>
<p>If you plan on securing investment, removing roadblocks to getting that DAU count up there will be the first order of business.  Speaking of that, where&#8217;s the Facebook app to show off my SO badges? ;-)</p>
<p>I would suggest to consider this more in the context for someone coming to stackoverflow:</p>
<p>&#8212;<br />
It&#8217;s the end of the day.  I&#8217;ve been struggling with Rails and has_many :though.  Sure I could stop using Rails, though I&#8217;m a sadist.   I&#8217;m frustrated and want to ask a question.  And when I&#8217;m done, I&#8217;ll feel better and perhaps contribute back to the community.  According to <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Design-Love-Everyday-Things/dp/0465051367/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1230521773&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">Emotional Design</a>, this is the least appropriate moment to challenge me mentally with an unfamiliar concept &#8211; my focus is narrowed and I&#8217;m done with problem solving.<br />
&#8212;</p>
<p>I tend to agree that hey, it&#8217;s a site for software developers &#8211; they&#8217;ll figure it out.  And they have, obviously.  Though I was surprised to find so many votes and comments for the OpenID request @ uservoice.</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by and best of luck with SO!</p>
<p>Rob</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Atwood</title>
		<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/comment-page-1/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Atwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 02:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allaboutbalance.com/?p=161#comment-353</guid>
		<description>Also, as an aside, the &quot;I just typed something magic in, and it worked!&quot; is pretty much the essence of programming.

Y&#039;know, for programmers. :)

I just want to emphasize how important the audience is in making the decisions we made. I absolutely would not pursue OpenID for a site targeted at older users, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, as an aside, the &#8220;I just typed something magic in, and it worked!&#8221; is pretty much the essence of programming.</p>
<p>Y&#8217;know, for programmers. :)</p>
<p>I just want to emphasize how important the audience is in making the decisions we made. I absolutely would not pursue OpenID for a site targeted at older users, for example.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Atwood</title>
		<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/comment-page-1/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Atwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 02:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allaboutbalance.com/?p=161#comment-352</guid>
		<description>Honestly, the minimal OpenID login barrier helps us, as it requires a certain level of commitment and understanding to get beyond. The types of users that get turned off by this barrier are not really our audience.

Bear in mind this is a site for *software developers*.

Also, a small tip: all you usually need to type in is &quot;google.com&quot; and click login. Try it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, the minimal OpenID login barrier helps us, as it requires a certain level of commitment and understanding to get beyond. The types of users that get turned off by this barrier are not really our audience.</p>
<p>Bear in mind this is a site for *software developers*.</p>
<p>Also, a small tip: all you usually need to type in is &#8220;google.com&#8221; and click login. Try it!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/comment-page-1/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allaboutbalance.com/?p=161#comment-351</guid>
		<description>Great comment Willie, and it touched on a lot of points.

Because login is something you do infrequently, many are likely to give SO a pass on this as the hassle is worth it.  It&#039;s a great community and if my entry free is stumbling through the OpenID process, then so be it.

I actually did notice the &quot;Why OpenID?&quot; while going back to take my screenshots.  It could come after the flow due to the issue you highlighted (&quot;crash course right before the login task&quot;).  For example, once you&#039;re logged in, a banner item such as &quot;You just logged in with your OpenID, thanks! I did?!  Wow!  What&#039;s OpenID?&quot;  That sort of modeless feedback would have a much better chance of being read and accepted than before the login process when I&#039;m frustrated being forced to learn something new - taking my medicine so to speak.

I&#039;d rather have my bowl of ice cream and then find out all the great things that were in it =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comment Willie, and it touched on a lot of points.</p>
<p>Because login is something you do infrequently, many are likely to give SO a pass on this as the hassle is worth it.  It&#8217;s a great community and if my entry free is stumbling through the OpenID process, then so be it.</p>
<p>I actually did notice the &#8220;Why OpenID?&#8221; while going back to take my screenshots.  It could come after the flow due to the issue you highlighted (&#8220;crash course right before the login task&#8221;).  For example, once you&#8217;re logged in, a banner item such as &#8220;You just logged in with your OpenID, thanks! I did?!  Wow!  What&#8217;s OpenID?&#8221;  That sort of modeless feedback would have a much better chance of being read and accepted than before the login process when I&#8217;m frustrated being forced to learn something new &#8211; taking my medicine so to speak.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather have my bowl of ice cream and then find out all the great things that were in it =)</p>
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		<title>By: Willie Wheeler</title>
		<link>http://www.allaboutbalance.com/irony/comment-page-1/#comment-350</link>
		<dc:creator>Willie Wheeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allaboutbalance.com/?p=161#comment-350</guid>
		<description>Good post. After reading it, I have pretty much the same reaction that you have, though to their credit they do have a &quot;Why OpenID?&quot; box that explains briefly what OpenID is and gives you the option to learn more.

I think the challenge they have is this. On the one hand they want to evangelize OpenID, which I can appreciate. On the other hand, few people know what it is or how it works, which is a problem in particular for the SO audience since geeks will usually want to understand how something like that works before using it. So in effect they&#039;ve inserted this crash course right before the login task, which for most users represents a distraction from what they&#039;re trying to do. So users end up being distracted (if they actually read the OpenID information) or else feeling a little confused about what they just did.

Anyway I agree with you that from a user perspective the focus should be on the login task itself and not on the OpenID technology. At the same time it may be that they&#039;re trying to strike the balance between the user perspective and OpenID evangelization. The rest of the site is so good from an interaction and usability perspective that I&#039;m prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post. After reading it, I have pretty much the same reaction that you have, though to their credit they do have a &#8220;Why OpenID?&#8221; box that explains briefly what OpenID is and gives you the option to learn more.</p>
<p>I think the challenge they have is this. On the one hand they want to evangelize OpenID, which I can appreciate. On the other hand, few people know what it is or how it works, which is a problem in particular for the SO audience since geeks will usually want to understand how something like that works before using it. So in effect they&#8217;ve inserted this crash course right before the login task, which for most users represents a distraction from what they&#8217;re trying to do. So users end up being distracted (if they actually read the OpenID information) or else feeling a little confused about what they just did.</p>
<p>Anyway I agree with you that from a user perspective the focus should be on the login task itself and not on the OpenID technology. At the same time it may be that they&#8217;re trying to strike the balance between the user perspective and OpenID evangelization. The rest of the site is so good from an interaction and usability perspective that I&#8217;m prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.</p>
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